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Aveyond 4: Shadow of the MistCurse at TwilightAveyond 3-4: The Darkthrop ProphecyA Gypsy's TaleAveyond 3-3: The Lost OrbAveyond 3-2: Gates of NightAveyond 3-1: Lord of TwilightYummy Drink FactoryAveyond 2: Ean's Quest

Most Liked Content

#450530 Aveyond 4 Beta Tester Sign Up Sheet

Posted by amaranth on 21 October 2015 - 08:26 PM

You've been waiting a LONG time (and so have we!). Would you like to beta test Aveyond 4? If yes, please add your name to the list. 


:D  :P  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :P  :D

  • tiniponi, phoenixalia, flavie and 27 others like this

#461409 Searching For Beta Testers for Machine Made: Rebirth

Posted by Allsvin on 20 March 2017 - 04:55 PM

Hey everyone,


It's time to put out a call for beta testers for my JRPG which has been on Steam for a few months! I'm looking for people who have great attention to detail and who can really help to bring this game to the next level!


This is a sci-fi JRPG with a female lead character, featuring character customization, minigames, and a deep storyline!


If you enjoy a good RPG, or have skills in writing, art or great attention to detail, this game is for you!


I've tested it myself and have a few dedicated testers who have spent many hours with it, but it still needs new people to comb through and offer their insight and observations!


In my opinion, it's well balanced, and most people will get stuck on puzzles/dialogue before getting stuck on fighting.


If you're interested in testing, leave a comment and I'll send you my email address where we can get you a game code for steam to get you started! You will need to have a steam account to play this game!


More information:

  • zahra, Liluunadrobe, Randyfek and 15 others like this

#458479 All working at Amaranth. My prayers reaching out to all in poor health / ill...

Posted by Q1of5 on 19 July 2016 - 08:40 PM

I wish to broadcast a "Get well prayer / wish" for all those Amaranth folks in poor health / ill. Know this - there are folks that include better health for all (at Amaranth, and abroad), in their daily prayers. And shall continue doing so until all attain a healthy daily living lifestyle ! ! ! #1 get better, #2 all else. Please you are missed !
  • Argoyle, lovely-girl, lynnmoz and 15 others like this

#461390 Some critique

Posted by Zydona on 20 March 2017 - 08:05 AM

Alright, to this day I can't believe I almost enjoyed it, but here's why the game is terrible:

  1. It basically combines RNG-walls with time limits. RNG is basically Random Number God. The problem with this game is the first RNG-wall, the Golden Goose, and junk like that. You shouldn't combine that stuff together, they don't go well together! Days limit can be challenging like RCT, but if your combining that with RNG-walls, that makes it more of an frustrating challenge than a fair thing. This is what you have beta-testers who play through the game for.
  2. Again another game that has a day by day linear system which was not executed properly. Speaking of that, if the linear system requires you to grind painstakingly for stats/money without wasting any time, then it's pretty annoying. The only other game I know that fails to execute it correctly was Heroes of War, I already know how bad it is as a poor man's Fire Emblem on CNET.
  3. A lot of pets can be tough but like a hundred it's like unplayable: you won't be fast enough to feed them before their dead. There's no feeder companion, only a defender and a collector, and even that there's a bomber bird distracting you. What kind of bird drops bombs?
  4. Combat is repetitive: just click and click and their dead. No magic spells or anything like that.
  5. What's the point of keeping the farms if there's no endgame secrets?

Anyways, that's about it. I wonder if there's ever going to be a sequel to this game? I pretty much enjoyed all of your Aveyond games, but I'm not sure what you were going for with combining time limits and RNG-walls.

  • ThomAnelp, Liluunadrobe, Randyfek and 14 others like this

#461006 underaged game sellers

Posted by RapidNoah on 16 February 2017 - 07:10 AM

Guys I'm just wondering (if possible) for under aged people, what do you need to sell a game
  • Broscep, fishme77, PrivatProxyUtele and 12 others like this

#459529 Love and War: Magical Girl Lavie

Posted by X-Calibar on 15 September 2016 - 07:58 PM

Hi!  First off, this is NOT my game... but I know the author to be a creatively awesome person, and just want to help a little bit.


Admiral Styles, of fame (featured game) is developing his first commercial title in his Love and War series... (Check out the free first game there... it's an old favorite that has stood the test of time imo, not to mention the animated trailer for that game)

Anyhow!  He's crowdfunding on indiegogo to raise money to pay artists and coders... (It seems even if he doesn't reach the target amount, all is kept and put towards the game which will go forward with what he has!)


Unfortunately, by the time you are reading this, it may be too late to join in... I found out about the crowdfunding project on the last couple of days left.  Though there may be additional ways to donate, or even just give a thumbs up or word of encouragement if you like what you see!


But here, take a look and judge for yourself!  I think it'll be a title to keep an eye on...


Indiegogo crowdfunding Love and War campaign


 Official site and forums







In the town of Davenport, the prosperous port city of Galvenia, a girl named Lavie lounges about in her room, bored. It's Spring Break, but there's nothing to do! Or so it seems. After checking her mailbox she'll be pulled into a magical adventure within a dreamy fairy-tale land, meeting colorful characters and getting into and out of a whole bunch of trouble... and all this, without ever leaving her room!



  • Specter, ValentiSuet, ZevinDof and 12 others like this

#287315 game won't open to full screen

Posted by lakota2000 on 29 June 2010 - 05:20 PM

Ive downloaded this game from 2 different sites Big Fish and here.The game is only opening in the top left of my screen. I've checked and unchecked full screen, restarted my machine, and anything else I could think of even tried expanding the window. Any idea whats going on here? Your download file said my machine met or exceded the recommended hardware. and I've got the latest direct X. So whats up here?
  • KishaEnace, Broscep, Rodgersmamy and 12 others like this

#423913 Aveyond - Ean's Quest: Keep Gavin and Nicholas

Posted by amaranth on 26 December 2014 - 05:54 AM




Use this goody to have Gavin AND Nicolas in your party at the same time.

NOTE: Applies to version 2 only. If you run your game in windowed mode and the window title does not say Version 2, do NOT install this goodie.

  • dashyEnadages, GeorgeGek, Lymanodove and 11 others like this

#455430 Maps for AV4 - important notice

Posted by tiniponi on 29 December 2015 - 09:34 PM

Once I finish recuperating I will work on annotating all the AV4 maps, as I have done for previous games.  I will post them ASAP, so please don't be upset that it will likely take a while.

  • Argoyle, Goldielox, dc6289 and 10 others like this


Posted by shaz on 11 March 2008 - 09:15 AM

If you are new to the forum, and are a little overwhelmed with how much there is to take in, you may miss some important information.

The Amaranthia forums have a number of rules that all members are expected to adhere to. These are in place to ensure all members are treated with respect and the forum runs smoothly. Failing to adhere to these rules will result in penalties - for some you will get a warning, for others, the penalties are immediate.

The rules are:
No bullying - penalty: Banishment
No harassing - penalty: Banishment
No prejudice - penalty: Banishment
No sexual language - penalty: Banishment
No offensive language - penalty: Banishment
No requesting real names & addresses - penalty: Banishment
No flaming - penalty: 1 month suspension
No spamming - penalty: 1 month suspension
No disclosure of real names & addresses - penalty: 1 month suspension

Additional rules, not yet listed in the Hall of Rule, but still enforced, are:
No pirating / illegal activity - penalty: Banishment
No plagiarism - penalty: 1 month suspension
No double-posting (considered a form of spamming)

While Amaranth Productions welcomes all feedback, positive or negative, about its games, flaming of users on the forums is not allowed. Flaming includes offensive language or insults directed toward another user with the intent to cause anger or to hurt feelings, and harassment of another user in the forums or via PM. All incidents of flaming of users within the forums will be deleted without prior notice. If you feel you are a victim of flaming via PM, please notify a moderator.

Good-natured teasing is not flaming; however, if another user misunderstands you and takes offense, please apologize and clarify the situation.

Prejudiced and Offensive Language
Comments which imply the inferiority of any subsection of the population will not be tolerated, whether directed at a user or not. This includes pejorative comments about a particular race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. Instead, please use these forums as an opportunity to communicate with and learn about people who have backgrounds different from your own.

Profanity and Obscenity
Amaranth Productions creates games appropriate for a wide age range; therefore, please keep in mind when posting that children may read your posts. Swear words are not appropriate. Use of an acronym or other character(s) to represent a swear word is not appropriate. If you use an unacceptable word, an acronym or character(s) to represent an unacceptable word, your post will be modified and you will be informed.

Sexual Language
As with profanity and obscenity above, please keep in mind that children may read your posts. In chat and RP forums, romance is fine, but explicit sexual language and graphic depictions of sexual scenes is not. Keep it clean and subtle.

If you make comments in a topic that are not related to the topic itself, you are spamming. While a small amount of chatter is acceptable, getting carried away, and derailing or hijacking a thread, is not. Stating that you agree with someone without stating your opinion. New subjects should be discussed in new topics, created in the appropriate forum. Reviving "dead" threads (non-pinned threads that have been inactive for more than a couple of months) may also be considered spamming. In game threads, posting information already provided by others, or information not requested by the original poster, is considered spam. If a question has been answered, then the topic is closed, unless the original poster asks for more information. Double posting, if you forgot to say something, use the edit button and add it to your existing post. Opening the same topic in multiple forums is a form of Double Posting and is considered Spam.

Posting the same, or similar comments in one cottage after another, or doing the same in the collegium, blogs, or downloadable games section, is also spamming, and will result in posts being deleted (gold lost) and a suspension.

Excessive use of Caps in a post, whether it is intentional or not will no longer be tolerated. To many it is considered yelling. As you cannot see or hear things on this forum we ask that if you feel the urge to use excessive caps in your posts please do so only in Spam Haven.
No excessive use of smilies in the forums. They are meant to convey emotion not to fill up an otherwise empty page.

Pirating / Illegal Activity
Do not, in the forum, cottages or on chat, ask for keys, registrations, cracks or otherwise illegal copies of games, whether distributed by Amaranth Games or not. If you truly do have a legal copy of a game which you purchased from here and have lost your key, email and ask for assistance.

Do not recommend or request sites for downloading or copying illegal material or prepared cheat papers for school. Do not copy poems, stories or articles from any source and claim them as your own.

Disclosure of Real Names / Addresses
Unless people are willing to make their real names known on the forum, do not ask them, and do not reveal someone else's real name. Do not ask for someone's address, and do not give anyone your address.

  • dashyEnadages, Mike Sims, BigBonusemige and 10 others like this

#454719 Halaina's Dungeon Guide! (spoilers)

Posted by Pokémon on 20 December 2015 - 08:27 PM



Since I haven't seen a complete guide of this on the forums, I took the liberty of writing a step-by-step guide on how to beat the dungeon in the basement of Halaina's Castle, for those of you who are stuck in this tricky section.  Obviously this will contain spoilers.  Tell me if anything is wrong!



  • Argoyle, LikaLaruku, Mopiece and 8 others like this

#456336 Boyle the Business Mogul

Posted by PIT-FACE on 23 January 2016 - 01:18 PM

A little thank you to Dan and Amanda for Aveyond. 




  • Argoyle, Tei, Mopiece and 7 others like this

#452140 Black Butterflies[A unique journey to the truth!]

Posted by zahra on 19 November 2015 - 10:18 PM



It always starts with a question. The question is, How far would you go? How far would you go to take revenge? How far would you go to prove yourself? How far would you go to break the limits? How far would you go to bring "Justice"???

The story that has been told to him is simple, Roman is a young peasant who has his own questions to answer, Join him as he goes on a mysterious journey. He's been chosen by Myra (The angel of war) to search all over the world to find five famous heroes and stop a big army of black butterflies that is attacking the Earth for no good reason...But...What's the whole point of this?! Black butterflies destroying the world? That's absolutely absurd...Unless it's all planned by someone to make a big show. Someone who would go THIS far to bring her own "Justice"...She's screaming, Are you listening carefully enough?! 



Kind of a fangame, Including 10 characters from 5RPGs. Note that the game also has its own characters and story
3 endings
20 side quests
A huge world, Including 8 islands
Animated side view battle system
Switch between party members during the battle!
40 hours of gameplay






Windows (Setup file):
Mac (Zip file):
First Island (Green Island)
Second island (Northern island)
Third island (Underworld)
Fourth island (Main island)
Fifth island (Southern island)
Sixth island (Western island)
Seventh island (Northeastern island)
Eighth island (Eastern island)



The following companies own the copyright for character creation:

Aldorlea Games: 
Marine, Bokden, Benoit & Lord Dragon from Millennium series
Amaranth Games: 
Rhen, Dameon & Pirate John from Aveyond 1 
Mel, Te'ijal & Stella from Aveyond 3
Dancing Dragon Games:
Carrion, Teresa, Maric and Ruby from 7 Deadly Sins 2
Claret & Sullivan from Skyborn
The complete list of credits is available in game

Note: This game is still in beta stage so it's buggy. I'm waiting for you guys to report bugs to me. If anyone is willing to be a beta tester, Just PM me. The credit will be given. 




ATTENTION! I developed this game to gain experience, So please don't expect it to be a great game. I'm still learning, So any feedback is really appreciated. And as you know, English is not my first language so the game is probably hard to understand at some points. Thank you for your patience!

  • Old Timer, lenagq2, Liluunadrobe and 7 others like this

#330297 Ahriman's Prophecy Goodie Compilation and other Goodies

Posted by KTC on 31 January 2011 - 02:01 PM

All 8 Goodies Compiled into one File


All 8 goodies in one neat little install. No more hassling with save files as this tweaks the game directly. By tweaking the game, you don't have to download the save files every time you want to use a goodie.


EXP Bar + Invisible Barrier Fix + Reset Guilds



Works fine with the 8 goodies compilation. Gives options between EXP bar only or all 3 at once.


Instructions inside.
Tested on a vista system and it works. If you have any difficulty, please post bout it here.



I plan to release the following soon:

Join all guilds

  • dashyEnadages, Douglaskt, Lymanodove and 7 others like this

#461990 What AV3 character are you quiz

Posted by moonpeace on 22 April 2017 - 01:44 AM

I made an Aveyond personality quiz! And it took me 4 hours but worth it

Lol, I'm curious as to what you guys get. For the record, I got Edward :P
  • Ruffi, Mu11berry, Specter and 6 others like this

#423907 Aveyond - Rhen's Quest: God Mode

Posted by amaranth on 26 December 2014 - 05:39 AM





This is the goody of all goodies. Use this to get +30 levels, 100,000 gold coins, the best armor, the best weapons, all guild books, and the speed crystal.

  • ValentiSuet, Douglaskt, CNanOnino and 6 others like this

#166304 FAQs - Technical issues for Aveyond Orbs of Magic series

Posted by tiniponi on 18 May 2009 - 03:33 PM

Aveyond 3, Orbs of Magic Series

Q: Can I use a mouse to play the game?
A: Yes, both mouse and keyboard inputs are included … using a combination of both is most effective.

Q: Can I play Aveyond with a Gamepad or Joystick?
A: Yes. If you're looking for more of a console feel or just find using a mouse and/or keyboard cumbersome Aveyond: Lord of Twilight can be played with a gamepad or joystick and the default button configuration actually works quite well.

Q: Can I change the settings (hotkeys) for my Gamepad or Keyboard?
A: Yes. With the game open, press F1 on your keyboard. This opens the Game Properties controls, which includes tabs for changing your Keyboard and Gamepad settings.

Q: Is there a way to turn sound and/or music on and off?
A: Yes. There are actually two ways to control sound and music. 1. The first controls both sound AND music at once:
A. If you want NO sound OR music, from the Title Screen, open the Options menu and toggle Music/Sound: to OFF.
B. Conversely, if you want to hear both music AND sound, toggle it to ON. If you set it on and one/both doesn’t/don’t play, then proceed to 2.
2. (Note that the setting in OPTIONS overrides the following.)
This method controls sound and music settings individually:
While your game screen is open, press F1 on your keyboard. This opens the Game Properties controls.
A. If you want just the sound (no music), make sure the ‘Play BGS and SE’ box is checked, and the ‘Play BGM and ME’ box is unchecked.
B. If you want only music, make sure they are set just the opposite,
with the ‘Play BGM and ME’ box checked, and the ‘Play BGS and SE’ box unchecked.
(BGM and ME = Background Music & Music Effects; BGS and SE = Background Sound & Sound Effects.)

Q: My game screen is flickering a lot. Is there anything I can do to stop it?
A: Yes and no. Although it doesn’t always stop all the flickering on some computers, using the F1 controls usually reduces or stop flickering. With the game open, press F1 on your keyboard, which opens the Game Properties control. Select the option ‘Reduce Screen Flickering’ and that may well help. However, on some computers, this may cause the graphics to become glitchy. If this happens you can just deactivate this option, restart your game, and everything should be back to normal.

Q: Why is it so dark in some caves? I can’t see anything.
A: Your monitor brightness needs to be adjusted. Most monitors have controls on the front for adjusting this.

Q: Is there any way to make the game run faster on a low-end computer system?
A: Possibly. With the game open, press F1 on your keyboard, which opens the Game Properties control. Make sure the ‘Smooth Mode’ box is unchecked. This may make the game faster but may cause the game to not scroll smoothly, so it's a trade off. If your system runs the game too slowly, you may well be willing to put up with the lack of smooth scrolling in order to play the game.

Q: How can I locate my savegame files?
Start > Run, then type in %AppData%\Aveyond 3. Press enter and your savegame files should be shown. If not, make sure your folder options are set to show hidden files & folders.

Note: In AV3.3:The Lost Orb (TLO), the games will be saved as TLOSave#.rxdata. This way, your savegame(s) from a completed game of GoN won’t be overwritten, so you can restart TLO as many times as you like. Be very careful if you want to rename savegame files for backups ... unless you know what you're doing, don't do it. If you want to backup your files with different names, PLEASE copy and paste the file to another folder, then rename the one you pasted. You want the game to be able to find the originals. :D

IF the preceding method doesn't work for you, I have listed below the paths to directly find the savegame files on many computers, as well as info on setting your computer to show Hidden files and folders. It is important to note that various versions of Windows may or may not have a slightly different path. Be sure to try the above method first .. it is the simplest and quickest way to find your savegames.

Here are the usual paths for navigating directly to the savegame files. Note that some editions of XP or Vista may have slightly different paths, but this will work for many:

Windows XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\(user)\Application Data\Aveyond 3\Chapter 1 (or Chapter 2, when that is released)

Windows Vista:
c:\Users\(name)\AppData\Roaming\Aveyond 3\Chapter 1 (or Chapter 2, when that is released)

Important note: You must have folder options set to show Hidden Files & Folders to be able to see the savegame files if you navigate directly to them. How?

Windows XP:
1. Right-click 'Start' and choose 'Explore'
2. Click 'Tools' then 'Folder options'
3. Click 'View', and then under 'Hidden files and folder', check 'Show Hidden Files & Folders'.

Windows Vista:
1. Right-click 'Start' and choose 'Explore'
2. Click 'Organize' then 'Folder & Search Options'
3. Click 'View', and then under 'Hidden files and folders', check 'Show Hidden Files & Folders'.

Q: How can I send a savegame for problems that require correcting?
A: FIRST OF ALL, MAKE SURE you can’t get the problem solved by asking on the forums. Only email your savegame if ASKED to do so. Once you’ve located your savegames (instructions for locating them are in first post above) and chosen which one to send, do the following:
Shaz is the one who will be making any corrections to savegame files, so start an email to her at and attach the file it. I can now make a very few corrections, also, mainly moving a trapped player character. My email is Be sure to include an explanation of the problem, including the game title and build, so she’ll know what to fix. Send it in and be patient … it may take a while for her to get to it and/or fix the problem.

Q: How can I take a screenshot in the game?
A: 1. If you’re playing full screen, press Print Screen (PrtScr).
If you’re not playing full screen, make sure the game is the active window and press Alt-Print Screen (some keyboard will abbreviate it to PrtScr).
2. Paste the image into your graphics-editing program. (There are many such programs, but most people have Paint, so feel free to use that if you like. )
3. Save the image as a .jpg or .png file if you want to upload it here.

Q: How can I attach my screenshot to a post?
A: You need to upload the file to a photo-sharing site like PhotoBucket, Shutterfly, etc. Once the file is in place, do one of the following:
1. Copy the IMG code and paste it into your post. Make sure ‘img’ is NOT in capital letters, or it won’t work. (PhotoBucket’s IMG code is capitalized, so you will need to change it yourself). Now click ‘Submit’, and your screenshot should show up in the post.

2. For this method, you must make a new topic, OR choose ‘Add Reply’ in an existing topic. At the photo-sharing site, copy the Direct Link. In your post, click the Image button … Posted Image

A text box will pop up …
Posted Image
paste the Direct Link into that box, and click ‘OK’ three times. Now, click ‘submit’, and the screenshot should be in your post.


Until 'Attach file' is disabled, you can use the following method .. note this will likely be disabled before or shortly after the Forum goes public.

A: To add to a previously existing topic:
1. Click ‘Add Reply’.
2. Below the text box and the Options, you will see ‘Attach file’ with a Browse and an Upload button. Browse to your saved screenshot
3. Click ‘Upload’.
4. Once the file has finished uploading, click ‘Submit’. Your screenshot will then show up in the post. Note that it won’t show in the ‘Preview’ screen.
To start a new topic:
1. Click ‘New Topic’ at top or bottom of the forum in which you wish to add the topic.
2. Type in a Subject.
3. Below the text box and the Options, you will see ‘Attach file’ with a Browse and an Upload button. Browse to your saved screenshot.
4. Click ‘Upload’.
5. Once the file has finished uploading, click ‘Submit’. Your screenshot will then show up in the post. Note that it won’t show in the ‘Preview’ screen.
  • dashyEnadages, ValentiSuet, GeorgeGek and 6 others like this

#462302 Demon Sulfur

Posted by mzcorkof2 on 10 May 2017 - 07:05 PM

i cant find it. i know its the caves that whats his name has to break the burrier down. i went to the one that is on the far left of the map in the north...didnt see anything thing. what does it look like?

  • Liluunadrobe, ThomasSix, Antoinenuh and 5 others like this

#461229 Mu11berry's Art-ish Looking Things

Posted by Mu11berry on 16 March 2017 - 08:23 PM

Hi guys! I'm back!! Probably most of you don't remember me (I don't remember that many of you so I'm hoping anyway) but I used to frequent Spam Haven and the story forum. Theennn I got busy and the site changed and I was sort of intimidated, but now here I am again! I have returned from the dead! And I am going to share my "art" with you! Because the world needs more AV art, and not because my art is any good XD Actually it's pretty much the opposite of good, but I try.


The image quality is HORRIBLE because I draw on paper and then take pictures of it. So I am sorry. Just enjoy the poorly done fanart, okay?! (If it even shows up. Hopefully it shows up)


First up, Kandy, who is not an official Aveyond character but comes from a fanfic called "Shadows of my Twisted Destiny," by Queen_of_ice101, who is a truly amazing writer, by the way. Evil, but amazing.


I tried to give her a sort of rebellious/evil but girly look, and instead she looks like Strawberry Shortcake on Halloween, but ya know. This is why I am not a character designer.





Next, Rhen, cuz she's awesome. Not colored, because I drew her in my sketchbook instead of on loose paper, and I am left-handed so it is a pain to color anything in books. True story.




Aaaaaaaaand... RHENXDAMEON! OH! I AM not sorry but I am a little sorry for yelling. I just really love them. The random colors on top are from me trying to figure out exactly what shade of brown/blue/etc all my fifty thousand colored pencils were.


Oh yes, and I always give Rhen pants because she doesn't deserve to fight horrible monsters with her legs all exposed like that. Also, I am always lazy by the time I get to drawing her boots, so that's why they look like they do. Same goes for the other picture of her, hehe





  • Specter, moonpeace, BlackPrincess and 5 others like this

#461004 [VIDEO] Aveyond on Android

Posted by Specter on 16 February 2017 - 05:52 AM

Update 2:

Another video (longer)! The error at the end has also been fixed now!



Some good news for this. Sitting in front of my laptop for straight 35 hours (breaking my own record XD), I managed to bump up performance a bit AND get rid of the 256 color issue. There are still quite a few things to fix, but suddenly this seems much more viable to me. What's more, I managed to get TLO running *perfectly* on both my Xperia M5 and Moto G4 Plus :D



First of all, don't get your hopes raised :(
So I did get Aveyond to run on Android, but the possibilities are limited. It runs only in 256 colours on most devices and doesn't run at all on many, though it does run on most new phones. I don't know if I will ever be able to fix this, both due to lack of time and knowledge, but it was a fun exercise!

(By the way, in case you're wondering, I'm not using Neko RPGXP, since that is not really an option for commercial games and also glitches horribly)

  • moonpeace, BlackPrincess, Queen-of-Ice101 and 5 others like this