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Posts posted by daeva_agas

  1. Sorry to double post, but I think that wall of text is big enough to give people a headache.


    See, if we're even bothering trying to igure out how RELIGION works in Aveyond, it means that we're treating Aia as a world of its own.


    The NPCs may have stock lines and a lot of things are gameplay conventions, but it IS still meant to be a "real world". Just because NPCs say stuff, doesn't mean that it is definitely true. They're people. People gossip. Wild rumours happen. There are myths and legends that may or may not be true.


    While a lot of the legends DO turn out to be true, it still doesn't mean that every single legend spoken of IS true. Only the confirmed ones are true. Until it is proven true, it isn't.


    Basing theories on "what-ifs" that were never confirmed is pretty much making things up from thin air. It's cool and interesting and stuff, but then it's not so much speculating anymore. It's, again, making things up and defeats the purpose of trying to speculate something logically.

  2. Pfft... We need spoiler tags. This huge wall of text doesn't look pretty at all.


    You definitely CAN call a superior being of a higher level your child, if your child *IS* a superior being of a higher level. It's grumpy-making to read blanket statements like that, stated as if they're absolute truth.

    Oh, that's funny :laughing: I don't see any blankets. I know I didn't make any blankets either. Maybe Elmo's blanket got magically teleported here from Grouchland :lol:


    In all seriousness, though, you're the one who's not understanding what I meant. I was sure I had been quite clear, but let me try re-explaining my point.


    See, what you said requires the superior being to be your child FIRST. If he/she is your child, then however powerful magically/politically/physically they are doesn't count. That is NOT what I meant. What I meant by "you can't call a superior being your child" is akin to you walking up to the President of the United States of America and declare that he is your son. You seriously cannot do that! But if the President IS your son, then you're allowed to call him son however you want.


    Sometimes children end up being superior to their parents. That's how "superior" people end up existing in the first place. (SEE: "evolution." ) It is absolutely possible that a mom's kids can do all sorts of things she can't do, but she still has the parental role to "punish them."

    What does evolution have to do with anything? What are you even talking about? Obviously "superior" can mean many things, but if it involves evolution, this "superior" that you're talking about is definitely NOT what I had in mind.


    When I said "parents are superior", I mean parents are by default superior to their kids because they have PARENTAL AUTHORITY. It does not have anything to do with physical/magic/political powers. Was that so hard to understand? Since you obviously agree with me about parents having authority to punish their kids, this argument is moot and pointless.


    Adoption doesn't make sense because in this case, it would be like a fish or a dog adopting an adult human.


    Remember that we're specifically discussing the nymphs here. Remember that the nymphs have power over human SOULS. Their blessings affect YOUR VERY BEING. This is not simply having super-strong magic powers. This is a serious god-mode thing. There's no way they could have been simply born with that role out of the blue because this is something that requires great responsibility.


    The only way adoption makes sense is if you can gain nymph status just like the druids. If a nymph retires, they pick a new one. But the game implies that the nymphs have been nymphs since forever. Otherwise Iya wouldn't have immediately assume the Oracle was the goddess when she calls Ishtar and Heptitus her daughters. If the Oracle used to be human, I don't think Ishtar or Heptitus would want to be adopted by her.


    The logic that "Greek and Roman gods and goddesses pop by Earth a lot, etc. etc." isn't relevant here, because that's based on our universe, and the Aveyond universe is not our universe. Unlike in our universe, no other gods or goddesses except Haurvatat "pop by." There's apparently something unusual about her, and the previous existence as a mortal MAY be the reason *in this separate universe*.

    Whoaaa, hey there pot, I think I just hear you calling kettle black? Look at you. You're stating blind assumptions as though they're absolute fact and it makes me grumpy now :roll:


    Seriously. If citing real-world myths is a bad example, okay, here's a better one: Rhen and Dameon supposedly had an epic romance, but we never see that happen on-screen. Or we don't see the characters go take bath or poop, but it's assumed that they do anyway. By the same logic, just because we don't see those gods pop by for a visit, doesn't mean that they don't do it while we're not looking. You are wrong to assume that only Haurvatat ever made an appearance in the Aveyond universe ever. There may be no proof that they did, but there's no proof that they don't either. We haven't seen the entirety of the Aia universe, for crying out loud. And even if we DO see them in AV4, things surely have changed since the AV1 era, so it's not really proof of anything.


    Now, would Talia listen to some Oracle lady whom she may or may not have met before? We can't really know.

    Again, that's the point: WE DON'T KNOW. Yea, it's true that if the Oracle is Avril, Talia would be more comfortable with the choice. A familiar face makes you feel better, after all. However, the Oracle being some random old lady doesn't make it any less likely that Talia would listen to her. We don't know, so we can't assume the Oracle is Avril simply because Talia listened to what she said.


    But this has very much to do with my "the Oracle couldn't possibly be mortal" argument. I don't agree the Oracle/goddess used to be human once, so that's why I said it's not possible that Avril is the Oracle. That is, unless Avril is not human either and was the previous "avatar" used by the goddess before she decided to just go become the Oracle after Ahriman blasted Mainland.


    Also, "It is fact that" would sound odd in a conversation like that. "It is said" is just a turn of phrase.

    Sure, two can play the nitpicking game. Oh yeah, "it is fact that" is a weird phrase. But grammar and phrasing is beside the point here. I'm just saying that "it is said" indicates uncertainty. It's the same as "word has it xyz" or "I heard that xyz" or "someone told me XYZ". The NPC is quoting a dubious source that has no confirmation, so it cannot be considered "fact". It's not impossible, but you shouldn't be treating it as absolute fact just yet.


    Again with the Mordred example. Some NPC said that the reason Mordred turned evil was because Lilly broke his heart or something. Is it true? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Same thing with Haurvatat. There's no "History of Dirkon" book that confirms it, or a book about gods that confirms it, or the Oracle confirming it, or heck, Haurvatat him/herself confirming it. None. No proof = not fact. We can speculate all we want, but when there is no solid proof, we can't claim that so-and-so is fact.


    In AP, there was an NPC who told us that the village was built by a sun priest. Later, we find a history book that confirms it. That is and example of in-game solid proof. Dirkon don't return in AV3 so it may be too late to make an in-game proof, but I would take "word of god" as proof if Amanda ever confirms it.

  3. ... Printed this really ridiculous thing just to see if I can print mini-comics at home. Turns out I can.


    This horrible little thing is pretty much junk. Just look at that skeevy cover! I just want to know if comic pages will print properly from my regular home printer.


    Did the binding myself too and I'm darn proud of this, even though it looks HORRIBLE. Hey, at least now I know I can produce doujinshi without having to deal with printers and stuff. The quality would be not-so-good, but at least it works!



  4. Far as I can tell? It was planned, but nothing has been said since CAT's release. Just like how Gypsy's Tale never got a sequel even though the ending implies that there will be a continuation, there is a chance that CAT won't get a sequel either.

  5. Sengoku Basara crossover because Nobunaga's armour looks like Agas' armour width=50http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/sha-bo_de_LC/face_demon_agas.png[/img]




    Awkward crossover because in Sengoku Basara there's also a characetr with long white hair, so those who're not familiar of my!Agas might think it's a pic of THAT other guy, pfft.

  6. But she said "Mother of All". It implies EVERYTHING is her children. Even if you use "mother" in the sense of "nurturer and caretaker", that still make no sense. A mother is a parent. A parent is superior. You cannot call a superior being of a higher level your child. You cannot call a being who is more mature/advanced than you your child. It's like if you say "I care for my boss and think of him/her as my child" when you are in fact younger than him/her. Then it becomes rather demeaning instead of nice and caring :S


    Again, Nymphs with powers to give SOUL BLESSINGS are below her. Even if she's not their real "mother", she is still superior to them because she can punish them. You say we have nothing but her words to go by, but if she is lying, then she IS arrogant and demeaning to claim that such powerful beings were her kids.


    It's a rather weird assumption that "god/goddess appears to mortals because they used to be mortals too". Greek and Roman gods and goddesses pop by Earth a lot and they didn't used to be humans. Hindu gods use avatars to walk among humans and they didn't used to be human either. God is God and He interacts with humans and make appearances.


    Re your argument that the Oracle = Avril because "Talia would rather listen to Avril then some random lady nobody saw before": So what? You don't have to know someone to obey them if they're more powerful/experienced. Rhen listened to the Oracle and Talia even though she never saw them ever before. I've had guest pastors speak in church who I never saw or know ever, but I listen and follow what they say because their advice makes sense and I trust their judgement. And plus, a lot of important things happened that involved people who we never see ever. Talia married this random sun guardian guy who we never see ever and Mel marries Lars VIII who we also never see ever.


    Re Haurvatat: Okay, I totally missed that house :S It doesn't prove anything though, cause the villager said "it is said so", not "it is fact that". So it was a legend, not a fact. If you need more proof for the Oracle's claim that the nymphs are her kids, then I too need more proof that Haurvatat used to be mortal other than some random villager's saying.


    That was a lengthy ramble, but you did ask if your argument made sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me and all the above is my reason why.

  7. No, the nymphs ARE her children, or at least she's superior above them and those nymphs are either gods themselves or very near because they can bless "souls". To consider herself "mother of all" is arrogant if she isn't really the creator. That is, unless the world is formed by science and all living things came from evolution. Which doesn't explain where the gods come from or why they're even there.


    So it occurred to me that maybe the reason Haurvatat manifests as a physical being is because she was (if I remember correctly) once mortal, and is therefore more in touch with the mortal world...


    Are you sure? There was never any mention of mortals/humans becoming gods anywhere. I just checked AV1. Unless I missed something, the only thing we ever hear about Haurvatat is her introducing herself as Goddess of Healing when we do good deeds and the Dirkon villagers talking about her.


    Personally not fond of humans-turning-to-gods, but eh. Only Amanda can say if it happens in Aveyond or not.

  8. It's not original because "neutral dark creatures" are plenty, but most people would not choose to call them demons. "Demon" has an evil connotation attached to it.


    I'm Christian so I generally see "demon" as evil too, but English kind of shoves a whole lot of mystical beings under the "demon" umbrella so... I have seen a number of manga and anime translate youkai as demon, even though youkai are not really the "demon" as the Western world knows it. I think they're more akin to elves and dwarves and mermaids: supernatural/fantasy beings who may or may not be evil depending on which creature you encounter.


    I kinda went with that train of thought to make my daeva nonsense, really. Without it I'll just dismiss them as evil because I frankly don't care. Bear with my nonsense rant:


    Daevas and druids are both guardians of their respective realms. The druids take care of the physical, the nymphs takes care of the human souls. Demons have no souls (their life force is also their core of magic), and so they only need one set of guardians, the daevas (keeper of the elements). All guardians are under the command of the goddess. To prevent utter annihilation by the guardians fighting each other to death, daevas cannot kill druids and vice versa (hence why Agas failed to kill Talia and the daevas only took the druids' souls instead of killing them). They can kill each other (Talia killed the former Sun Guardian), but really, logically they have no reason to want to do that.


    That's it for now. It's all mostly my own ideas and while they're tailored to fit canon, they're still NOT canon.

  9. Uh, quasi? Not to belittle you or anything, but I think your thought process is a bit tangled up.


    , but since Haurvatat and the Goddess were in the habit of appearing in the flesh to human witnesses, how can people just stop believing in them?

    Uh, when did people stop worshipping the goddess? If you mean AV1, didn't we already discuss the why up there?


    About Haurvatat, it may be that she doesn't appear to too many people. Remember that she only showed up TWICE in AV1 and only after you do a "good deed". Not enough witness = lack of credibility. Then maybe afterwards she gave up on humans and just sulked in her godly realm and refused to appear in front of humans ever again.


    Also, not many people knows the Oracle is the goddess. The goddess is real all right, but very few had the chance to see that she is real. She mostly prefers to appear as the Oracle, and the Oracle just looks like a very wise magical woman. Those who never saw it would never believe it's real even though they really ARE real. Especially if there are "alternative beliefs" to believe in. Look at Earth. We have bajillions of beliefs and each believer claims that theirs is true. Even if one religion turns up to be the one true religion and everything else is wrong, some stubborn people would simply not accept it, period.


    it's obviously a Greek-inspired town, but I don't think it was named after a specific place in Greece.


    Yes, and? Did anyone say it was named after a place in Greece? :o It may simply the Greek word for "high place" just like how "tamago" is just Japanese word for egg, but hey, it's probably just an easy reference because the Acropolis of Athens is famous and all.


    Some names are directly lifted from the names of gods in our world, but doesn't mean that it's them. They could be gods in the Aveyond-universe who happen to be named those (read: easy reference; people feel good when they recognize familiar things). Or, you know, they're just priests, like I said before. Priests and priestesses CAN too bless.


    See Ahriman. Ahriman is the ULTIMATE God of Evil in Zoroastrianism. You know, just like Satan/Lucifer in Christianity is? And yet in Aveyond he's just a very powerful demon overlord, not the king and god of all demons.

  10. My personal theory is this: The Oracle is an avatar for the Goddess. A human manifestation of sorts (just like the Hindu gods like to do). She has powers, but limited. At least not much compared to her true goddess form.


    She chose to not involve herself too much with humans because she is "The Almighty". Just like how God in Christianity doesn't willy-nilly drop from upon high. He sends His prophets and angels and Jesus to do what needs to be done, and He only makes an appearance when it's a VERY special case. Haurvatat may be the equivalent of the Christian angels (and he/she even has an angel sprite).


    As per AV2, we see that Thais is a pretty influential kingdom, so it would make sense that their beliefs spread to other regions. That's how cultures spread. Communication happen, and people trade beliefs and cultures through it.


    Or, you know, this new belief makes so much more sense than the old beliefs that the old beliefs were abandoned. Maybe a ruler somewhere converted to goddess worship and started putting the statues everywhere. And because the goddess DOES exist, magic miracles happen to those who donated. Then someone who saw it went and put up goddess statues in their own place even though they don't exactly care about the goddess. They just want the miracles to happen. I mean, if so-and-so worked in that other place, maybe it will work here too!


    Re Demon Realm: Remember that in Av2 the Oracle says that Aveyond is the LINK between human realm and demon realm. If Aveyond disappears, IT WOULD BE VERY BAD. By logic, it should be no problem to sever contact with demon realm. No more evil demons wandering around, no more bad guys like Ahriman. But the Oracle indicated that it would be bad if the link was gone, so the demon realm must be important somehow!


    My interpretation of this is a yin-yang system. Demon Realm and Human Realm are two ends on a scale, with Aveyond as the bridge between the two. They both have to be in balance or else everything will be destroyed. If the Demon Realm is ruined, the human realm will be affected. If the human realm is ruined, the Demon Realm will be affected. The demons also worship the goddess, albeit in their own twisted way, because she is their creator too. Or, even if they don't worship her, they're at least obedient to her.


    I personally see the demons of Aveyond as more like "youkai" of Japan than the Abrahamic idea of "demon". They're supernatural beings who by nature have a "dark" element (just like witches and warlocks), but they're not necessarily evil. There ARE evil demons, but demons aren't inherently evil. They can choose to be evil or not, just like humans.

  11. Amaranth has always been a sort of a niche company. That is why I guess Amanda never got super rich like some other indie have from a single title.

    So even if the PC market has shrinked a lot, nobody taps the entire market in the first place and there might be still plenty of players in the PC market for casual and RPGs.


    There is another thing, how does Amanda reach new players? If she is not reaching new players, she might be in a bad position. It's harder for her to reach to new player with PC games because that is not the current buzz.

    I don't recall almost any news who got viral about PC indie games, especially Casual\RPG.


    Not even sure what in the world is the point of this thread. Do you want business tips from Amanda and co on how to run an indie game-making business or do you want to criticize the way she's running things now?

  12. Indra wrote:

    when we revisit the Arishta Isles in The Darkthrop Prophecy the goddess has donation boxes in pretty much every city.

    There's even a goddess donation box in the DEMON REALM, mind you.

    Either we have landed in an oddly very human-influenced society in the Demon Realm or the goddess is universally worshipped by everyone in the Aveyond-verse including the demons.


    However it's possible that, like you said, after the oracle revealed that she and the Goddess were the same person, maybe all the Arishta Isles people were so mind-blown that they immediately built her all those statues and donation boxes and apparently forgot about their other gods.


    Yeah, that. AV1 has been a rather quirky little oddball. It has a different belief system than AP, and then for some reason in AV2 ALL the AP stuff resurfaced and the stuff we knew in AV1 vanished. Heck, I was uninterested in AV2 and 3 at first because I saw no trace of AV1 in them beyond Thais and Te'ijal and Galahad showing up.


    The one thing that makes AV1 different is that MAINLAND DO NOT EXIST.


    My theory is like this: The goddess-worship is something that the Mainland people do. It was absent in AV1 because Arishta is separate from the Mainland and they had little to no contact with each other. Post-AV1 Arishta starts having major trade with Thais (the last remaining area of Mainland) because Rhen and Dameon grew up in Arishta.


    Thais probably needs help with money/materials/manpower for rebuilding and then Rhen asks Sedona and Veldarah for help via Lars and Galahad or something. After all, Lars is the cousin of the Veldarah Empress and Galahad is very close to the Sedona king. Then some few years later, with the increased contact the goddess worship spreads over to Arishta too, and over time taking over the local beliefs.


    The local deities, who are indeed quite real, well... I personally belief that they are gods of "lower rank" who are The Great Goddess's assistants or whatever. I mean, it's possible that everyone worships the same pantheon, but they just choose to worship different gods. Just like all those polytheistic religions out there. You have one leader of the gods and a whole bunch of other gods doing various things.


    I think it's weird that things like the Apollo bow and Zeus armor existed, because presumably, the people in Aia don't believe in either Apollo or Zeus. However, the Greco-Roman pantheon has been incorporated into many fantasy worlds in the past without always being a religion. Maybe Apollo and/or Zeus and/or anyone else were actually real people in Aia.

    I'd like to point out that these are the name descriptions for those items:


    - Zeus Mail: Armor blessed by Zeus

    - Apollo: A bow blessed by Apollo

    - Archimedes: A hat blessed by Archimedes


    So it would seem that Zeus, Apollo, and Archimedes are either priests with powers to bless or they are deities.


    Aren't things just super messed-up now? Heh :P

  13. quasi-candid wrote:

    The names without origins are just as important as those with. I think it's important for clarity's sake to take note of the names that don't have meanings. It's a strange juxtaposition to have two figures of equal importance, like Haurvatat and Ahurani, one with a background and one without.


    Yo, that's an inappropriate example. If you spend just five minutes to check the facts, you will find that BOTH Haurvatat and Ahurani are Persian deities. It's easy enough to find them on Google. We probably just missed one of them because we forgot. I certainly did. I forgot that Ahurani's name was even mentioned at all.


    Anyways, this is a thread where us forum-goers contribute as we come along, so you can't expect every single darned name to be explained! :S We post when something comes to mind or we discover something new. Not everyone cares where the names come from, so really, I don't think it's "important" at all. You're curious? Good for you. It's easy enough to Google the names you want to know about yourself :o


    So, I might as well make a new contribution:


    Tunsten Darkthrop: Tunsten is similar to "Tungsten", the element otherwise known as "Wolfram".


    Mordred Darkthrop: Mordred is from Arthurian legend, most famous for being a traitor and fatally wounding Arthur. Some say he's Arthur's son from his half-sister Morgause. Others say he's Morgause's son with her husband King Lot.


    I can speculate that Gyendal derived from the name "Gwendal", but it's only speculation. Amanda has a habit of putting in characters with normal-names-but-with-a-twisted-spelling-to-seem-cool. E.g: Ean = Ian. Dameon = Damian/Damien.

  14. Heh, Hideyoshi is my favourite too. He's cute. Nobunaga isn't bad too. His manic grin is hilariously endearing.


    Nobunaga-esque, you say? Well, I was basing the faces on the sprites. Obviously I need to work on my "drawing bearded old goats" skills. Though in my defense... the samurai pack sprites are knockoffs of historical characters and this sprite IS a Nobunaga-knockoff.


    I chose these guys because they're not often used in games as the hero party and I want to be special, but I'm not fond of cocky flamboyant heroes so that's why Shinoki is shoved into the "sidekick" slot. It's like playing AV2 with Gavin as your main hero. No way!

  15. Look, understand that not all of the names have mythical roots. If we can't find anything on them, then most likely they came straight out of nowhere. Names like "Te'ijal" or "Vlissre" or "Gyendal" or "Elini" turned up nothing in searches thus far, so we do not explain its mythical roots because we can't find anything.


    We don't explain Aveyond's religion because it's not the point of this thread. Frankly, I think all of us don't know either. AV1 was an oddball because it strayed quite far off from AP, but then AV2 pulls ALL the AP references back to the surface and actually left out a number of the stuff that was set up in AV1.

  16. Original story, yay! Not posting a thread because I'm not too sure about it yet, so I'm posting it here instead.




    Bushitto the poetry-loving food connoisseur is the main hero. Shinoki, the shogun's flamboyant son, is the sidekick. They're the starting party you set out with. The other party members... er, coming soon. Because I haven't written out the story that far yet.


    This time even though the sprites are default, the facesets will be custom-made by me so I'm roughing out the face designs.


    I so totally need to observe more anime and games to see how they spice up traditional Japanese garb without losing the traditional aesthetics and turning them into a total WTF-fantasy style :S I'm drawing a blank here.

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