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Scimitras

Sexual Identity

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Anyhow, to get back onto topic:

Personally, I believe that attraction to the opposite or same sex should not be looked down upon, for while many may contradict that you can unquestionably choose to be homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, or even a-sexual, the hormones in a persons' body also contribute to their level of attraction to a certain sex.

 

In the upbringing of mankind, where has it been biologically or morally correct to bind a person's feelings and personal freedoms, in the event where no physical harm has been done to any other members of society? It hasn't. And where in the society of democratic liberties does a person deserve to be branded an infidel due to his or her wants of a more equal union?

 

Whatever the reason may be (upbringing, society influences), you have no excuse for either avoiding the fact that you are empowering your kind, or looking down upon others, for that is discrimination.

 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

-Abraham Lincoln

 

 

PS. Even magic may cause our personal attractions (ie. Devin's marriage)

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Agree or not, those gay/lesbian/straight are kind of label which have condition for each of the contents. Anything that related must be included to the related label. Ex: Gay is a label for some guys who attracted to other guys, and so on. It's true if someone will be a dilemma for 'joining' one label, which is depends on themselves, and seen by others. But, we(anyone whoever say this) come with expecting to not stamp the label to someone until they admitted and realized themselves as they do. Are we talking about respectfulling the 'containts'?

 

The very problem to me already listed in my previous post, that questioning the matter of nothing-to-do-label as queer/straight.

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Okay,this is getting somewhat far,and is insulting me,seriously deep.I attempted to keep away from it.As a gay guy,let me say that I did not decide to be gay,because I found out I am seriously gay when I found myself drooling when was looking at a handsome guy.It is quite hard to accept,and is even harder to make the others,especially friends accept you the way how you are.It is an extremely insulting thing to put labels,or even have the intention,and you do not choose,you are born that way,with your own preference.Please do not jump the horse with this,because it insulted me deeply some of the posts here,and I am not giving names.

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Kenneth, she never said you're "born that way".

 

I completely disagree with you. When I learned that I was gay, the first thing that bothered me is that there wasn't a universal definition of gay. If no one quite knows what gay IS, no one can quite take pride in it.

Also, why are you insulted? D:

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Let me put it this way:

I said that you are born that way,you don't choose!

It doesn't matter what type of gay you are,you are gay!Enjoy your life,because sincerely,instead of the straight relations,you'll most of the times find purer love at gay couples,believe me.I am insulted by the way people put those things down.Labels?This is hypocritical,and let me not say very rude!Please keep labels out of this,it is a very rude and unpleasant thing to add in a topic,this thing.

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@klaus:

hey, cool it off. If you don't like the label thing, then i'd change it instead.

All label we meant is somewhat that used to called those people. Labels give names and usually pointing out as they're being 'labeled'/called. Like, gay itself is a name/nickname of some men who attracted that much to other men, which is the requirement of being gay.

Take an example of age's dividing. There're baby, children, teenager, adult. If you want to be called/(labeled) as baby, then you must be small, drink milk, and whatever baby should do, and vice versa.

 

Label of gay: i don't understand how you put the word of 'label' that makes you feel offended. Please tell.

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@everyone who thinks labels are labels and there is nothing wrong with them:

They hurt. It feels like a seperation from what people deem normal, and that the inadequate people get labeled as part of the non-crowd.

 

@everyone who hates labels:

I feel your wrath, but there is no way to talk about a certain cateogry without a name.

 

I personally hope this ends any form of fighting over "labels", and get back to discussing about sexual identity itself.

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Colors is a label for "red" "gold" "blue" etc. "soft" is a label for teddy bearts, pillows, silk and feathers.

You just said you're born gay and don't have a choice in the matter. That's basically saying you take a baby and it's born with a label- Straight or Gay.

 

So not only are you contradicting yourself, but you are asking people to keep personal opinions out of an open thread because it "insults" you. Earlier when I was insulted by something another amaranthian was saying, it had nothing to do with their opinion which I valued and respected, and still do.

 

But if you are getting angry at shadowshed because you disagree with her opinion or choice of words, thats alright as long as you don't keep telling her to keep it out of the thread. She hasn't said anything inappropriate to the thread. Everyone has their opinions. Even if she had said, "I think being gay is totally wrong and all gay people should go to straight camp" (WHICH SHE DIDN'T NOR DID ANYONE NOR DOES ANYONE FEEL THAT WAY), it would still be an opinion she had the right to share.

 

You, putting down her opinion and telling her to keep it out of this thread is a form of oppression. If you are so worried about the oppression of homosexuals, how about the oppression of free thinkers?

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@scimitras:

NO! You should be the most calm guy there, you know.

 

First of all, i never felt that my arguments were being tracked away by klaus until you said it out loud, lol. The truth is, klaus was only has his problem with word of 'label'.

Thus, this topic is debatable, so everyone may up to themselves and hear anothers.

 

Guts in Labeling: it's explained quite much by s_tyong there. He feels bad of it, so i changed the word i'd describe in similar meaning in order to make him feel less offended, but i still want him to know that it's only some phrase so he won't be so warm up.

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No,the function of labeling is my problem.People are in such a hurry to put labels these days,and when you first get a label,you remain that way for an extremely long time,and as much you want to fix that stupid and annoying label in your life,is almost impossible to remove or fix it.That's why I don't like the label subject.Please use another way to represent the separation,not labels.It's offending for most of people,so please.Scimitras,I didn't attack anyone,I was upset by some things which made me feel under the heel here,and that isn't Shadow saying that,trust me,it's something usual,but there are few things that you can found out by yourself that I found offending.And you are born how you are born,rare are the times when the people change their preferences which they discover with time.

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@klaus:

no. Gay can change their way if they want to. I realized that it's also painful to be like that, but this is the way humans do. If they find something out of common, only two responses that would be in use. The positive ones, and negative ones. Unfortunately that ppl usually make its hard toward them, and maybe you.

 

Just take it as some organization, and you're in it. Together with other members, be special in that way.

 

Time to give label: that's how ppl response. If we don't like the way, then we'd basically ignore it.

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Organizations,again.Wouldn't be better if we don't put this one too?I am really sick of labels,please,or group like things.Same for school,all students are in groups,and each with their own things.Can it ever be all together,and get along with each other,not eliminating this groups,but when I see them at every corner it gives me shivers,really.

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@klaus:

uh.... Then could you feel all ease? I understand how it feels being separated of others. Even we're same, we different. But we don't have any control over it. As long as we act what we supposed to act, then it'll be our freedom.

 

All i can say, no one could erase any kind of separating. It even started from the most thing, like male and female, or Gods and humans and animals and plants.

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I had a math teacher named Kenneth.

 

Anyways, I think that one can change their preference through life.

 

For example, some people think its an act against god to be gay.

 

So they go to "straight camp" where they are brainwashed into thinking what they've done is horribly wrong and come out "straight" because of lies and trickery.

 

Maybe they were born gay, but for moral reasons or not, something changed their preference through life. Even a traumatic experience can do this. It doesnt have to be a choice.

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Gays can't change who they are. This would like saying a male can change their body into a female and vice versa: it doesn't work like that. A male body will always be a male body no matter what changes you do to it.

 

Likewise with your sexual orientation: You're going to be gay/straight/bi/etc. no matter what because its hardwired into you.

 

But you can pretend to be what you are not. Many people would rather deny who they really are instead of accepting/embracing what they are. They're still gay, but they rather pretend and choose a 'straight lifestyle'.

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I'm going to jump in here about the label issue because I feel I must ^^;;

 

Thinking that there is a way to live without labels is naive. As long as there are differences, there will be labels, and as we all know, there will always be differences. Male or female. Light or dark hair. Old or young. Rich or poor. These are but a few examples.

 

What matters is simply the connotation of said labels. If you think they are are negative, then of course they will be insulting. If you think they are positive, then it will feel like a compliment.

 

These meanings, too, can change. For example, when I was younger, "gay" was a rather foreign concept to me but, in general, it was probably skewed towards the negative. Now, though, the feelings evoked by "gay" are rather neutral. If you're gay, then ok, that's fine. It doesn't really affect my life. When it comes to society as a whole, I think it's beginning to change its viewed on homosexuality, as well (this is coming from someone who lives in a Canadian city - I can't speak for all societies).

 

So, all in all, labels are around whether you like it or not. What you choose to make of it, however, is up to you. If you are truly comfortable with who you are, then you won't be as hurt by the labels others may attach to you, even if they do have a negative connotation behind them :)

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@KTC

 

Scimitras wrote:

That's like saying I can't call you human if you refuse to identify as human, even though you fall under the category of human as defined by.. well, the definition!

 

 

Kirroha Responded:

@Scrimitras: That's the most ridiculous case of false analogy I'm heard of. Being gay is NOT the same as being human or not. The definition of 'gay' is perfectly circumstantial, and unlike a fact where someone can only be human or non-human and not in-between, a person CANNOT be classified as "definitely gay" or "definitely straight". I suggest you don't continue with that line of reasoning. It's potentially insulting to homosexuals.

 

 

Careful what you say around here... MY human analogy didn't go over too well. <.< >.>

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Your human analog didn't work because the human definition is clearly defined as a member of the homo sapien species.

 

I speak of sexual orientiation from my understanding: that it is also fixed in that one will naturally be attracted to the different sexes in varying amounts. In other words, the amount one is attracted to a certain sex is hardwired into you. You can't magically change this through brainwashing, torture, etc.

 

But whether you acknowledge and accept your attraction preferences is where the self given labels comes in. A woman who identifies as straight isn't necessarily attracted to only men. It's quite possible that she in fact doesn't find men appealing at all and prefers women. She can go on dating men, marrying men, etc. and continue a 'straight lifestyle' but this doesn't change the fact that she finds women attractive.

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I suppose I'll disagree that you are born gay. For me I think, everything starts with a lust. There's no love on first sight, it's lust on first sight. If that lust turns into love and this lust was heterosexual, you stay straight. If the lust fails or the lust that succeeds is homosexual, you turn gay. In other words, it's not your choice but it kind of explains why some people are straight yet have homosexual lusts

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@theone: That doesn't make sense because in order to feel lust, you need to be attracted to the person in the first place. Lust means you want the person physically aka physical attraction. But if you feel no attraction in the first place, than you won't feel lust.

 

Hence the 'you are born whatever sexual orientation you are' part: A person with very strong preference for the same sex is going to be attracted and therefore 'lustful' of the same sex. A person of the opposite gender would do nothing for them.

 

As for your straight with homosexual lust: keep in mind that straight/gay/etc. are all self given by the person. This is what they identify as. This doesn't make it necessarily true as the person in question could also be in denial of their other attractions.

 

I'm of the opinion that most people are bisexual to some degree. If not, there would be no point in magazines aimed at one gender. Look at women's magazines for example: Women must find the models in question attractive because they would then want to buy the product that the model is wearing. If they had no attraction to the models in the first place, they wouldn't be interested in the items.

 

Does this mean they want to have sex with the models? Of course not. It just means that they do have a small attraction to the models.

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