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kipani

Are you afraid of death?

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@wolfie: don't kill/steal = doesn't make any sense within the context of the bible.

 

*points at the raping/pillaging/killing/etc.* According to the bible, its perfectly okay if you have a good enough reason ie, god told you. Which ya know, is sufficient reasoning to make anything okay, even the rape.

 

lusting over another's wife: okay, i'll give you that since god was ticked at david for trying to get the mack on with another dude's wife. But the others? naw.

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What context is that? The context of some yahoo, claiming to follow god, getting to decide what god is ok with with no proof or much evidence? That doesn't override the messages god sent with Moses or Jesus.

 

God's messengers would do some pretty unique things, Moses had his halo, and the stuff he did with water, Jesus had his healing, Gabriel was an angel, and so on. Some king making oaths that force him to sin can't overrule them on what's ok and what isn't.

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@KTC:

The likings are just the same as we shoot serial killers or terrorist or anyone who's condemned at great fault. Umm,

let's say it as punishment.

 

 

And David being the one who's mentioned as he stole one's wife cuz there're rules already mentioned earlier with Moses. Besides, will it worth to tell stories about that in bible?

 

@Wolphie:

KTC was saying that even human can get approval when they killed other, but as we all know killing others is forbidden and a sin.

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@wolfie: many of those 'yahoo's were prophets of god in the actual bible. And some of the stories in the bible I'm quoting from are from the people of god.

 

I don't see the reasoning of being able to 'pick and choose' what you want from the bible as the entire bible is supposedly the word of god. And seeing as Jesus did not (sadly) invalidate the old testament, that means the old testament is fair game to be used as a guide to what sin is/isn't. Why is one part of the bible invalidated while others are not?

 

The bible has plenty of people that rape/kill with no consequences as long as God says so or you have god's approval. Hence, one can conclude that as long as you have god's approval, any possibly sinful behavior such as killing/genocide are perfectly acceptable and will not add to your sin counter in any way.

 

@shed: King david was also the dude who killed 200 guys for their foreskins (the part you cut off during circumcision) so he could marry Saul's daughter. How's that for a wedding gift. What happened to 'You shall not kill'? :P

 

1 Samuel 18:27

David and his men went out and killed two hundred Philistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.

 

As you can see, king david obviously had god's favor so he could go on his merry way to get them foreskins. They were the enemy so it's all good lol.

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@KTC:

Well, that's war. What can we expect from that? :P

 

Young David was a good kid who always obeyed God. Hence, God was happy about that and supported him at wars, and brought him to the highest role in Israel.

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KTC: as someone pretty intelligent once said, "I don't see the reasoning of being able to 'pick and choose' what you want from the bible"

 

 

read a bit further, and it says David wasn't allowed to build god's temple because he had sinned.

 

and besides, if that, the time David spent being chased down by his own former armies, and finally losing his son as an enemy in battle wasn't painful enough, there's the part where he still has to face judgement after his death.

 

 

Shadowshed: I know, and I agree. Our disagreement is regarding who that approval comes from: God, or just other people who profit from those deaths.

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@Wolfie

 

 

KTC: as someone pretty intelligent once said, "I don't see the reasoning of being able to 'pick and choose' what you want from the bible"

 

 

That is what KTC was saying about sins in the first place. That people pick and choose what is a sin and what isn't.

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Mopiece wrote:

@Wolfie

 

 

KTC: as someone pretty intelligent once said, "I don't see the reasoning of being able to 'pick and choose' what you want from the bible"

 

 

That is what KTC was saying about sins in the first place. That people pick and choose what is a sin and what isn't.

 

Going back to what I said in post #46, people who do that are wrong. and as far as I can tell, nobody here has said that wasn't so.

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Back to the topic question, I'm not afraid of death or dying. I've been dreaming about dying, the effect isn't nightmarish though. there's an earthquake the whole ceiling falls over me, then nothing.

What I'm afraid of is the death of a close family member

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@meroko: i dunno, a painful withdrawn death is painful. unless you mean when you finally kick the bucket. :3

 

(watched "i shouldn't be alive" marathon and egads, the painnnnn, and endurance, but mostly the pain! )

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This may be weird, but I have absolutely no fear of death. None at all. If anything, I'm curious of exactly what death is. I fear pain, but not death. Sure, I'll miss my family and all but death itself doesn't scare me. It's enevitable so why worry about it?

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@playpink: naw, it's not weird. if you looked around the thread, you'll see members who don't fear death, only the possible pain that might come along with it.

 

Let's face it: when you die, that's the end of it. But pain is pain and most people don't enjoy it.

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My opinion on death has changed so much since my last post that I feel compelled to write again. Nowadays, I have developed a fascination with death. I don't know, for some reason, I can't wait to die and find out what will happen. Or maybe it's only because of depression. Regardless, I can't wait to die and in fact, want to die as quickly as possible

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Lot of people saying here that they're not scared of death.

I am scared of death. I'm christian and I want to go to heaven, but I don't want to die.

Death is a scary thing, and I understand if some people never get over it.

 

@theone: seriously? You want to die as fast as possible? Life is a precious thing, I don't think you should think about dieing that easily.

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why are you scared about death? It's just a part of life.

 

As for heaven: here's how I think of it - if one believe that god has a divine plan (like many catholics I know), then god planned if you're going to heaven, hell, or purgatory. Regardless of so called free will, everything you do has already been planned and accounted for by god. In other words, you have no control over which one you're going to so there's no point in worrying about it.

 

(Strangely enough, I haven't met many christians with the above viewpoint. Is it just the people I hang around or are people really suggesting they can change god's divine plan, the one he had since the beginning of time, by a little fear/worrying?)

 

@theone: I'd see a therapist about that depression of yours. Depressions do bad things to our perception.

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When I think about death, I think I'm scared about it. It's not like I don't accept the death concept, but I guess it's more to scared because not knowing what death exactly is and what would happen afterwards.

 

I am curious about it, but cannot help fearing it.

 

@KTC: agreed. God had set his plans for us, and even have it adjusted to our personalities. We, somehow can't get out of it, since He'd predicted of everything we gonna do.

 

But, what do you mean with changing those plans by fear? I don't get it.. O.o

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Because religious people tend to get their knickers in a twist about heaven and whether they get in or not. I don't know how many times that they use "You're going to hell if you don't do XXX" as a justification for their harassment. they think if they do yy or aa they will have a higher chance of getting into heaven. They don't so they should stop trying to convert people (ie me) or force others to bend to your own beliefs.

 

Their fear about their fate is what motivates them.

 

Obviously, if god planned for you to enter heaven, you will. if you don't, you won't.

 

(On a slight off topic note: for the above reasons, I think prayers are useless too. God isn't going to change his plan no matter how fervently you pray or how faithful you are.)

 

as for fear of the unknown: ahh, a common fear.

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@KTC:

I see.. But a note for "everything had been planned" point, from my knowledge, those planned things isn't always going to happen(but I think mostly yes). Because we have this "free will", we can hereby to deviate from the road that has been set for us, and so we wouldn't be able to proceed with what way we're supposed to go through, unless we go back to the point where we were deviated from, and follow the road.

 

In other words, God is not scripting our life story inside out, but making points instead. And so, we're likely to find those checkpoints, one by one to meet the final. I could say it almost the same with playing a route in Visual Novel, though.;)

 

Lol. Okay, now I know I sound perfectly like people who've talked with you, but I feel to talk about it, anyway.

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@shed: Either way, in your scenario or mine, your path has already been predetermined. Even in a visual novel, you have a limited number of choices and cannot deviate from them. In visual novels, you do not have free will as the script has already been written and you're stuck in whatever situation you are in. Yes you are given choices on which path to take, but they are superficial if one considers that the endgame has already been written for you.

 

In other words, your free will is still a comforting illusion if you factor in the idea that god has a plan and your choices are irrelevant ultimately.

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@KTC: well, I was trying to focus on A route in visual novel. For example, a 'true end'. True end was set, and then writer add more characters, events, and possible routes into it, to make it a vn, not kinetic novel.

 

Yes, it's true that in vn everything had written from the start. But remember, when we play a vn, it's become our very will to explore it. The writer might have slight of idea to predict the player, but it's entirely depends on ourselves.

 

Summary:

No, people don't have to gone with the true end if they don't want to, either way, unless they have something special to achieve by finishing that end(e.g. bonus, afterstory). But there's something certain, which is what player will achieve in the end of game. It could be either one of good ends, or.. the bad end.:P

 

Okay, I hope it makes sense.

 

Note:

I am saying that God's plan for us were as the true end in vn, and an illustration on how we could rebel on the plan.

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@shed: but what I'm getting at is you're still following god's script no matter what. Free will suggests that you have complete control over your fate, that you follow no one's plan including god. But if this god exist and his plan, you are merely dancing to god's tunes no matter what you choose.

 

He made the paths you follow and there is no deviation from those paths. You cannot step out of a plan just like a character in a visual novel cannot decide to follow path A or B but instead make plan C.

 

God, being presumably omniscient/omnipotent, would have already accounted for such decisions and as such would have compensated for it.

 

In other words, what you think is free will is in fact you just being a little obedient character in a visual novel game. You are merely god's pawn to play with and eventually discard/banish to storage.

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