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shaz

How do you like your Pairings?

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I've been wondering about this too, and since the other thread has taken a slant in that direction, I figured it a good time to bring it up.

 

So, what sort of pairings do you like? How do you like romance to develop?

 

Do you prefer if the couple are both PCs and you can watch the relationship change throughout the game? What about where only one is a PC, but you get several opportunities to interact with the other, and can see things develop?

 

Do you like having a choice of who someone should be with? Collecting gifts or doing little things to influence attraction between people? Love triangles, with a little jealousy thrown in?

 

What about personalities? If two people like each other and get on well, how would you ensure the pairing isn't boring? Or do you prefer some/lots of conflict *cough EmmaXRye cough* and competition?

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First of all, when talking about the main character(s), I think there should be more than one possible love interest (like how Edward has four potential brides, Rhen has Dameon, Danny, and semi-Lars). It gives the player some control. Attraction points are fun too, especially if you don't know exactly where you'll get an opportunity to get one.

 

With side characters I like humorous dialogue (like Te'ijal and Galahad), and conflict is fun (like Te'ijal and Galahad), as well as some moments where one/both might have a sudden realization that they love each other (LIKE TE'IJAL AND GALAHAD!!). Did you guess who my favorite game pairing is yet?

 

However, with attraction points, I don't want to have to search all over the world for them either. For example, in AV2, the attraction points for Rye and Emma are scattered so many places and none of them can be activated until after the tournament. It's almost impossible to get them married without the aid of a walkthrough.

 

Oh yeah, there's one more thing I like that is severely lacking in RPGs - homosexual pairings. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against straight pairings, but a possible gay/lesbian romance in an RPG would be awesome.

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Redemption stories!!! The likes of Lars and Rhen, Zuko and Katara... can't think of any more examples off the top of my head that isn't my random crack.

 

I don't mind if the other person is an NPC, but it's kinda hard if you travel all around the world and the other person is just sitting wherever they are. It's fun if the NPC travels separately, though. Example. You're the hero team. The NPC love interest is a travelling merchant. If you had x attraction point or if you trigger an event, the NPC will leave and you'll find them in another place you travel to. Then you have different options to raise attraction points.

 

I'd prefer the attraction points are raised both by giving gifts and doing things. Aldorlea's Book of Legends is a good example for this branching options thing. You can use one of them mini-cutscenes to do this. Let's use a hypothetical Aveyond situation as an example: Mel sees a very nice hunting knife in a house. She wants it. Spook tells her to steal it. Edward tells her to ask the owner nicely. Player can choose to listen to Eddie or Spook. Attraction point +1 to whoever you listen to.

 

Seriously. If you can ask Indy to share his secrets for Book of Legends with you guys, you can peek into how he makes the branching events and see if you can do something like that. It makes the game ridiculously event-riddled, but it's FUN!!!

 

Emma and Rye is not a couple with conflict =____= It's, sorry to say, two people continuously having snark-battles for the lulz and they both know they're joking. They're just crass people with crass jokes. My high school classmates would say to each other things like "You're gay and you suck" and both parties know it's a joke and they're fine with it. No issues.

 

Conflict is, as Esme said, like Te'ijal and Galahad. It's less conflict because it's only one-sided, but hey. Te'ijal totally don't give a darn about what Galahad say about her. She likes him, he doesn't like her. So it's Galahad who's the one who needs to get over his issues. Te'ijal never has issues. I myself find it more fun when both parties have issues with each other (like my Gyendal and Mel crackship, yahoo).

 

I'm not comfortable with same-gender pairings, but if you want to make that option available... sure, why not?

 

You know, for a complex pairing thing to work? I personally find it iffy when the party leader is change-able. It makes me expect different reaction from people because supposedly the one talking is a different person. E.g: in AV1 when party leader is Lars, I was expecting his mom would say hello. Seriously, it's fun if any of the party members can be paired up. Again, Aveyond example: It's not only Rhen who has the choice of partner. It'll be fun if there might be events that somehow leads to Elini marrying Galahad, or Te'ijal getting Dameon (love the sun and stuff). So... Iunno. I like thing super-complicated like this. It's probably not even worth the trouble when romance ain't the main focus.

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"Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against straight pairings, but a possible gay/lesbian romance in an RPG would be awesome." <- This. One of the reasons why I liked Bioware games so much.

 

Pairings I like: Well, lesbians/Gay ones (Teijal/Rhen) first. I do subtext hunting often enough that it makes L/G couples more interesting to me than straight. Doesn't help if the subtext couple in question always interacts with each other and any opposite sex partner usually are one night stands.

 

Romance to develop: Throughout the game and there's meaningful interactions between charas. Also, if romance is to happen, than drop hints that there something between said characters. Doesn't have to be Anvil-grade screaming from the rooftops. Subtlety works wonders. It's a big reason why I prefer Lars/Rhen to Dameon/Rhen. Dameon came in late in the game and the love declarations were so left field. Lars/Rhen at first despised each other but gradually came to respect each other and Lars even showed some jealously toward Dameon.

 

No preference on the PC status other than they interact a lot.

 

"Do you like having a choice of who someone should be with? Collecting gifts or doing little things to influence attraction between people? Love triangles, with a little jealousy thrown in?"

^Yes to all of that. It makes the player more invested in the romance, even more so if breaking up with someone to get with another has lasting consequences for the game.

 

Pairing personalities I prefer: Not sure. It ranges from being the couple clashing like no tomorrow (even to the point of trying to kill each other and being mortal enemies) to awkwardly talking about shoes/hair/science and giving sideway glances.

 

Common denominator usually is that none of the people in the coupling are weak and they had personalities. Reason why Ean/Iya was so boring to me was because both characters are wallflowers and uninteresting. They don't have Rhen's rawr, Talia's witchiness, or Mel's spunk.

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Dameon came in late in the game and the love declarations were so left field.

THIS. I think there's an attempt to fix the whole Dameon came in late by forcing him to join the moment you attempt to leave the Sun Temple, but still. Dameon hardly says anything EVER in the journey, other than jealous quips at Danny. It's the same reason why Ed/Mel is a preferred couple. Mel and Eddie interact more on screen. I like the canon only because I don't like Ed/Mel and I'd love to see anything go between them. If I didn't have that bias, I'd probably join the crowd. That is, if crackship didn't get ahold of me first.

 

Re Ean/Iya. Even if they're wallflower/quiet types, at least SOMETHING should change. They're no longer in the sheltered world of the elves. They have faced the harsh world of Man and had to face dangers. Their character should have been slightly affected, no? Iya seems to have been more affected than Ean, so that should be a minor cause of conflict that can't just be solved or handwaved away. See the part where Ean just wants to go home whereas Iya wants to fight the Snow Queen. Again, romance may not be centered, but this is a reason for concern. Iya's personality definitely has changed a little, but in the daily interaction, it didn't show. Showing it would make everything a little better. AV2 had potential. It really does. It's the delivery that weakens it.

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The pairings should be developed. I wouldn't mind if the person you, the main character, gets is fixed as long as there is competition. Regarding same gender pairings, I really wouldn't mind much but err... Fundamentalist Hate Mail?

 

I liked the romance part best in Aveyond 3 but it still wasn't the best in the world. Obviously, the main focus was never romance but in my opinion, just buying stuff is never really a huge gesture. It's the conversations that help one decide who you like the PC to marry. These could be in-mission or in your house.

 

Aveyond 2 had the weakest romance. I liked the story and concept. Even if they were elves and couldn't have human competition, it's not like they didn't visit an Elven village. Also, Iya fit in despite being an Elf while she was queen. SO obviously, it isn't that obvious. I really think Rye should have had a choice between Iya and Emma. That way, even the Eya pairing would have a choice.

 

Aveyond 1 was more of a troll pairing than anything. I'm guessing the premise was redemption but the problem here was that you're supposed to repent a long time ago. If Daemon had repented in the middle of the game (Say, when they fight Agas) and then helped them, it wouldn't have seemed weird. But now, the sequence is:

 

1. Go to Ahriman

2. Daemon betrays you

3. He repents

4. You win

5. You marry him

 

This part is weird because no one just marries someone like this. Now if it had gone like Lars had:

 

1. Be horrible

2. Repent

3. Show throughout that you've changed

4. Then Rhen goes with him and hopefully marries him

 

See, this would make more sense.

 

And that's all!

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@d_a: In my mind the conflict in AV2 was that Ean really loves this new world he's found and wants to explore it and finds it fascinating, while Iya just finds it terrifying, and so when the time comes to return to the elf island (I want to call it the Vale, but I'm probably wrong) he wants to stay and he has to choose between her and, basically, the future he wants. And yes, I know that that whole thing is mostly fabricated, but the choice between staying and exploring with Rye and going home with Iya always seemed like it could have come along after a real conflict between the characters. Anyway, long story short, my headcanon Ean x Iya is a lot more interesting than the actual canon. And what I'm really trying to say, I guess, is that I agree with you on AV2 having a ton of potential; I think the fact that I managed to get all of this out of the sparse character interactions is testament to it. But I think the pairings/characters need to go a lot further than they have in the AV games previously. AV3 came close, but they were so OOC in AV3-4 and even before that were mostly broadly drawn stereotypes.

 

One thing that I really think would be nice is if one of the endings was not clearly designed to be the canon ending. I get that one of them has to be canon, because this is a series and you need a through line without inconsistencies, but all of the endings should be well made and satisfying. AV3 almost fixed this, except that there was that epilogue scrawl at the end that made it seem as if Amanda was just done and didn't want to deal with finishing the game completely (which is fine, it didn't harm the experience, and I didn't find it lazy, just kind of tired). Also, AV3's ending was annoying because all of the endings were basically the same thing. It would be nice if, in the upcoming games, each pairing ended wildly differently. I think another problem with AV3 is that the only pair-able male character is extremely constrained and boring; his fate is set from the beginning, so none of the pairings can be particularly interesting or surprising. So yeah, sorry for the rambling (and for being so harsh toward AV3; I do love it, just, for some reason, not as much as the other three in the series, even if I can objectively say that it's the best of them).

 

Also, gay/lesbian pairings need to happen.

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iPink wrote:

Also, gay/lesbian pairings need to happen.

 

I'm starting to imagine Mel/Lydia. After fighting so long over Edward, they finally realise they like each other and were trying to impress each other xD

 

I'm not really that sure about it needing to happen. After all, only 5% people are LGBT so you don't need to represent them in a game. Plus, Aveyond, as in the world, is set in Medieval times. That's a big no-no setting for a gay pairing. Also, we meet the oracle and she's the Goddess of Aveyond. Her stand on it would also be needed to be known.

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Hmm when you say 'pairings', somehow those VN types pops up in my head. Most of the pairings in the rpgs I've played are canons/uncontrollable (unlike Aveyond), without those affection points. Canon ones are the pairings I like since the story/development is much deeper rather than those with multiple girls/boys you can choose form.

 

I like the ones that one of the person does the bickering or makes the other person mad, it's just so cute. x)

 

As I've said, I don't like having several 'options' in rpgs because they're not made for that. Romancing Walker is probably the best that you can get.

 

Doing little things to win the affection of the person is good, not too much on the gifts though since it'll feel like you're just using money to buy their affection.

 

About gay pairings: No. I'm not against it, but just because there's a shortage of it doesn't mean the gamemakers should throw in some. Makes it sound like yaoi/(yuri) bait.

 

And for Dameon/Lars thing: To make a long story short, Lars = James Potter. Period.

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And for Dameon/Lars thing: To make a long story short, Lars = James Potter. Period.

 

Well, but canonically, Lily did end up with James - and Dameon isn't exactly the Severus Snape of the triangle either.

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I know I may sound like an oddball, but I like PC/NPC pairings. To be specific, I like pairings involving ENEMIES. Not just people on opposing sides like Rhen and Dameon, but really people who start off hating each other. To be even more specific, there needs to be an overarching conflict between them that needs to be solved. Bonus points if they used to be childhood friends or something before something happened between them to turn that love into hate, and eve more bonus points if it's a hero x villain pairing. Hate is a strange manifestation of love, after all.

 

I will also love it if one of the later games involve a villain that can be paired up with one of the heroes. None of the earlier Aveyond games had that. :)

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Pairings involving enemies, you say? I think I'm not exaggerating when I say there's a subtext between Gyendal and Mel in Aveyond 3- especially in the third chapter where he showed up as Spook to flirt with Mel? And in Aveyond 2, Ishtar's initial interactions with Iya can also count. They don't end up together- nor is it possible to make them hook up- but I suppose that's something?

 

The idea of an PC/NPC pairings is quite unusual, and I don't mind seeing that once in a while. As long as the NPC appears in-game at least once, and he/she plays a semi-significant role in the game, instead of being some random villager you can choose not to talk to. Examples would include the Orcale, the Druids and Daevas from AV1, Lorad and Ghelda from Shadwood Academy, Haurvatat, the Nymphs from Aveyond 2 and stuffs like that.

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Yeah, there may be subtext, but don't you think it'll be quite a refreshing change if an enemy pairing actually occurs? XD

 

I don't think there was subtext between Ishtar and Iya, though. Especially with the whole Ishtar-was-being-brainwashed thing. But Gyendal/Mel and Gyendal/Stella, yes.

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"Aveyond, as in the world, is set in Medieval times. That's a big no-no setting for a gay pairing. "

 

^ er no. Aveyond is set in Aveyond times. Medieval time rules only apply to settings that are actually in our world during medieval times. Clearly, AV is in it's own little world and runs on its own rules so whatever rules we follow in our world doesn't necessarily apply there.

 

See the continents constant reconstruction every few centuries. That did not happen during the medieval times. Or for a more serious example: marrying for love. In medieval times, you married to extend your family's wealth or keep the wealth in the family. Love didn't mean anything.

 

Nothing in the games suggests gay pairings are bashed in the AV world.

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I know it's not in Medieval times but the setting of the Old age here on Earth is the same as that of Aveyond, sans the magic and the demons. Plus, we haven't seen a single reference to it in the past 4 series so it would be weird to show it now, that too as something accepted by the people

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@theone: "but the setting of the Old age here on Earth is the same as that of Aveyond, sans the magic and the demons"

 

^ I again point to my statement concerning rules and how real life rules do NOT apply to a fantasy world like AV. We cannot assume any of our rules applies to theirs.

 

I'm not saying AV4 has to have a gay pairing. I'd like to see one but I know the likelihood of that happening is low to non-existent and I've accepted that.

 

But you canNOT say that the AV world is for/against gays simply because there's no evidence either way.

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@Kirroha: Hot dang, I can't believe I totally forgot about Foe-Yay!

 

Yess. You don't have to have a reformed villain. Bad ending foe-yay PLEASE. We haven't had a bad ending since AV1. AV2 and AV3 don't give us a bad ending choice where we can become evil and rule the world!! I had been seriously hoping for a bad ending choice for AV3 ever since TLO. I mean, that was what I hoped the Spook attraction points would affect. Either Gyendal and Mel teams up and they rule the world or evil!Mel rules the world evilly with Yemite's help, but nooo.

 

I think I'm not exaggerating when I say there's a subtext between Gyendal and Mel in Aveyond 3- especially in the third chapter where he showed up as Spook to flirt with Mel?

THIS. This this this this this width=100http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/sha-bo_de_LC/epic-winplz.gif[/img]Not only that, but the way his "I want to capture Mel to rule the world" lines are sometimes worded rather... oddly. And make them sound like innuendo :S

 

Not seeing much of Gy/Stella other than that one line about how Stella is so pretty and stupid that it's so easy to put a spell on her. I'm still seeing this as Gy/Mel, as Stella is pretty much Gyendal's spy-camera to watch MEL. Heavens knows just what exactly is he looking at... He ain't doing much while spying on them, and he can't know what they're up to without watching them almost 24/7 lest they go somewhere he doesn't want them to go. So...

 

:offtopic:

 

Foe yay. Please. I want it. It's awesome. That's why all my crackships are villain/good person. It's epic win forever.

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Well, I like a variety of pairings from a variety of things. I like anything from the interesting pairings with conflict (like, Te'ijal/Galahad) to pairings others call "boring" (Greece/Japan from APH is a good example of this).

 

I like it when both characters are party members, but I can't say I'd dislike it if one was an NPC (especially since it would be super hypocritical, my own game has a pairing like that.) If it's an NPC, though, I want more then a few different lines of dialogue. A few side-quests regarding them, perhaps? So if you can see them interact and develop over several conversations, yes, I would enjoy that very much.

 

I prefer multiple choices for the main character(s), but for side characters, I'm quite okay with just one. However, it'd be interesting to see multiple, so I'm fine with that, as well!

 

Quite frankly, I need the little scenes, or gifts, etc., to support/like a pairing. Otherwise, I feel like I'm giving the beginning and ending of a relationship, but not the middle. (That's the main reason I don't like Rhen/Dameon- I don't recall any scenes with JUST them and their relationship aside from the ending or possibly the house conversations.)

 

Love triangles can be fun, but they're certainly not necessary. Also, if you happen to pick the "wrong" pairing in a love triangle, then canon ends up being pretty disappointing. However, so long as the other is an ending option, that shouldn't be an issue. Same deal with jealousy.

 

If two people like each other and get along well, I would ensure they're not boring by making their personalities have a few little clashes that make them entertaining. One could be a total slob and the other a clean freak, and they could be teasing one another for their various habits. Or one could be blunt while another is reserved, which could have some entertainment factor.

 

Generally I don't prefer lots of conflict, but with Aveyond, it seems the more conflict the better for me.

 

Any other, misc. information... As others have said, gay/lesbian pairings would be awesome. ^^

 

Also, I've realized, almost all of my favorite pairings (at least in my headcanon of each) deal with one character trying to come to terms with their emotions for another, or having trouble with such an idea. So a character who was totally against romance falling for someone would be something I'd enjoy, or anything else with denial, really.

 

Oh, and maybe it's just me, but I think a shipper on deck would be hilarious! Have someone trying to set up the two characters, or referring to them as a couple when they're not.

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TOTALLY agree with KTC on the gay pairing thing. Aveyond does NOT take place in OUR medieval times, so that would be NO reason to say no to same-sex pairings. For one thing the AV universe has plenty of female warriors, which would have been a no-no in our medieval times, so yeah, there's no reason to say same-sex pairings wouldn't be acceptable in Aia unless Amanda or someone specifically said they weren't.

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I think you're reading more into it than what's really there. Gyendal had nothing for Mel. She was a tool for him - a means to an end, and he didn't care what happened to her in the process. Same with Ishtar and Iya - she wanted her abilities and nothing more. Gyendal posing as Spook was another way for him to encourage her to find the orb and to make sure he was there when she found it. The intention was for her to fall for Spook, but there were no hopes that that feeling would transfer to Gyendal.

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@shaz: Wellp, we're fans. Fans always read more into things than what actually is there.

 

Logically-speaking, I did say I was expecting it to turn into a "bad ending", even back when I wasn't such a Gy/Mel shipper. Gyendal wins --> Mel is his slave/pawn/pet/whatever --> oh noes, the world is DOOMED!!!

Gy/Mel makes no sense, Gy/Stella makes even less sense, even I know that.

 

But seriously, it HAD a potential. If you guys had decided to make it happen and it's a Stockholm Syndrome kind of situation? It's interesting. And some of us DO want to see that kind of thing happen in future games. What's done in AV3 cannot be changed, but in the future you can take that into consideration.

 

Not-so-logically-speaking, it's author-intent that says Gyendal and Mel romance is not happening. What ends up showing on screen can be interpreted differently, just because there's only so much detail you can put onscreen without making the game text-heavy :P After all, Aveyonds canon pairings tend to be based on implied-interaction (see Ed/Stella and Dameon/Rhen). There's so many instances where I can insert GyMel shippery scenes without jeopardizing canon.

 

End rabid shipper rant.

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I think you're reading more into it than what's really there. Gyendal had nothing for Mel. She was a tool for him - a means to an end, and he didn't care what happened to her in the process. Same with Ishtar and Iya - she wanted her abilities and nothing more. Gyendal posing as Spook was another way for him to encourage her to find the orb and to make sure he was there when she found it. The intention was for her to fall for Spook, but there were no hopes that that feeling would transfer to Gyendal.

 

Exactly. T_T That's why I wish there will actually be a canon one, or at least a heavily implied one! Unlike d_a, I actually like the idea of a reformed villain, but it must not be too hasty. It must be developed well - and I'll love it. :)

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@KTC: 'Die for our ship', yes? :P

 

And I'm not exactly hunting for shipping subtext per se, but I agree with D_A. Sometimes the writer allows two characters to have suggestive interactions- but although one (or both) parties have hidden/selfish/non-romantic motives to do so, such details can't really be shown on screen- and the viewers would probably interpret it differently.

 

About how I personally like my pairings... I'm honestly not certain how my brain works with shipping. I'm not overly excited with romance, and I loathe overly fluffy pairings. I tend to dislike canon pairings (or fan-preferred couples) for no real reason- despite the writer's attempts to avoid/parody normal pairing cliche. Sometimes I randomly ship two characters who doesn't seem likely to be a pairing, and sometimes they actually end up together for real. Sometimes I see another fan shipping unlikely pairing, and I just sorta go along with it.

 

@Kirroha: Same here. If the villain have to reform, or the hero becoming evil, the shift must not be too sudden like Dameon and Rhen in Aveyond 1. Their change of views/character should at least be implied through interaction with the other character or inner monologue.

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